Curse

LifeInfusion · Jun 13, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

It is only that way for lore reasons. Most sins run high dagger mastery (if they go hit and run) so I don't understand what is the problem.

Evilsod · Jun 13, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I'm waiting for someone to give a good reason as to why your using vampiric sword/daggers without having more than 13/14 in your weapon mastery...
Until then... quit whining. It means nothing.

WildmouseX · Jun 13, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

Top guilds are top guilds for a reason. They know what works, and they know what doesn't work. They have done the math, have tested the shit out of everything, and use what works. They don't use elementalist primary for assassins because they know it sucks. No one is going to be taken by surprise by an elementalist with daggers - because it's not going to do enough damage to take them by surprise. They will laugh, and wipe you. The reason they use 'cookie cutter' builds is because they run what works best in the current metagame - and builds end up looking similar. True, some just ride another guilds build up the ladder, but most, unlike you, understand the game.

people use to KNOW the earth was flat, till they learned better. people use to KNOW the earth was the center of the universe untill they learned better. - people use to ignore the necro in PvP for nearly after 2 years, untill they figured out how to exploit it and then every top 100 guild used them almost exclusively...

if you're too narrow minded to see that any damage given up by haveing 12 daggers instead of 13 - can be made up for by carrying an el spell - then you deserve to live your life stareing at walls and drooling all over yourself. they don't laugh and then wipe me out - they don't even see the daggers untill they start attacking other people in my group and i switch off my staff - and then they just die....

this character is over a year old - i have 8 characters in total, have beaten the game at every level, includeing PvP - i would not still have the character if she got smoked at the start of every fight and wasn't effective. - you can't even see past "13 daggers gives me 3 more dmg then 12 does, so you must suck", so sry i don't accept that anyone that narrowminded understands how to tie their own shoe, let alone the game's mechanics better then i do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonesamurai

Well, as thats 14 months old now, why post it now?

or even better, lets see it now...

i posted the link to support my claim that el's can be played as sins too. - i didn't look the post over, so i didn't know exactly what i had back then. which was at the start of sins and most people didn't comprehend the fact that sins can't tank.

currently the build is

[skill]Teinai's prison[/skill][skill]Black mantis thrust[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]repeating strike[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill][skill]lightning touch[/skill][skill]recall[/skill][skill]shadow refuge[/skill]

daggers - 12: ES 11 (7+1+3): A 8 (7+1): w 2 (1+1): shadow 5

again, whatever dmg i give up on the daggers is made up for with the touch. the touch and blossom gives a nice 100 aoe dmg to help out my group with their targets as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skuld

Spirit's Strength blows, you're a 60 AL melee character with no defense what-so-ever, no energy management..

again 60 al doesn't matter when you play the sin right and avoid dmg like your supose too... and how do you know he has no defense and no energy management? he only posted 1 skill.

and to whoever brought up firestorm - you got that from the el build for this character, not the sin build.. i haven't used her as an el for a long time.

fact of the matter to all of you, is that sin secondaries do play just as well as sin primaries with several of the other classes - the sin has caster level health and caster level armor; what you give up in crit strikes, and that 1 extra level in dagger mastery can and is made up for with the stuff the other classes have to offer. - you just have to understand the games mechanics to be able to comprehend it.

bam23 · Jun 13, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Deep wound > lightning touch.

I don't think that build is going to convince anyone. Might as well go Shadow Prison.

zwei2stein · Jun 13, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Ok, lets do maths for your (cough) assassin.
lead - +18 damage
off1 - +30 damage
off2 - +26 damage
dual - 2x40
touch - +37 + 26
dagger attacks + 60
---

277 damage - that is HARDLY killing power.

on aoe: + 2x40 + 37 + 26
total of 143, from which 1/2 is armor dependant.

You seem to do sucky damage. recall out there (was it random? skill put on skillbar?), do what, nothing?

This chain takes, what, 7 seconds? Your snare and trigger for AOE is 30 second recharge and has 2 second casting time. 35 energy cost is only decent thing about it (NOT).

Prohenix + Inferno does exactly same but faster (and with same recharge as your combo), you use only two skillots for that, can have actuall enamagement for attunement, and dont have to spread attributes.

(and btw, if you use repeating strike to get DPS, you kinda fail and should see what moebius+deaths blossom can do.).

Your stories about people taken by sursprise are very WTF. you had at least some team support, people can simply run away from 2/3 of your spike attempts. You simply were supported by damage comming from your group. Problem is, no assassin should need that.

If we do math again pro primary sin (since you used sup rune, so will this):

lead - 21
off1 - 37
off2 - 31
dual - 2x47

follow with moebius + 37

300 damage (base damage + at least one crit inluded) already better, most of it armor ignoring, and all that goodness.

from now on, you can SPAM 94 armor ignoring AOE damage every 3 seconds and 131 on target (once target is under 50 its every 2 seconds).

granted your other attibutes are 13 crit strikes and you take critical eye/zealouos dagges, you never run out of energy, ever, even without crit eye/zealous daggers you will drain your energy slow enough.

and there goes last reason why you are E/A.

your build simply cant do aoe damage on that level of awesomenes. both pure assassin and pure elementalist surpases it.

Also, you can never fit IAS skill in your build, unlike pure assassin who can use any secondary ias he chooses.

---

Do us favor, run Dummy test on your build. make video, prove yourselves when math failed.

Phantom Gun · Jun 13, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

My 2 gold pieces is that you should be able to choose a weapon for either your main, or secondary profession. If the reqs were at least level 12 that would work or me. I have several characters but at the moment I spend most of my time playing a minion bomber on my Rt/N. Since most of my spawning powers last longer then the recharge I don't need a spawning staff. I'd rather take the death one.

Now I know there are plenty of death staffs out there, but if somebody takes the time to beat the game they might as well be allowed to choose a reward from either proffesion.

Before anybody says "just farm for a different staff", well i'm not that lucky. I've gotten 2 gold drops in the past 3 months. Both of them were merc trash.

Buying one isn't really an option at the moment either unless I want to chance buy unids.

Anyway before I get to far off topic, I agree. *Nuff Said*

Andrew Almond · Jun 13, 2007, 08:59 PM // 20:59

yeah guys... try to stay on the topic please...

-Loki- · Jun 14, 2007, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

people use to KNOW the earth was flat, till they learned better. people use to KNOW the earth was the center of the universe untill they learned better. - people use to ignore the necro in PvP for nearly after 2 years, untill they figured out how to exploit it and then every top 100 guild used them almost exclusively...

People never ignored Necros. They've always been used. They've been used since beta, and two very, very common builds I can name off the top of my head, that were used before the first GWWC even took place, are Ranger Spike and IWAY. Both used necros, both were very popular about 6 months after prophecies release.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

if you're too narrow minded to see that any damage given up by haveing 12 daggers instead of 13 - can be made up for by carrying an el spell - then you deserve to live your life stareing at walls and drooling all over yourself. they don't laugh and then wipe me out - they don't even see the daggers untill they start attacking other people in my group and i switch off my staff - and then they just die....

You not only reduce your dagger mastery to 12, but you needlessly remove 10AL from your base armour and deny yourself critical strikes. If you cannot see the impact of not having critical strikes and another 10AL on an assassin, I see no point in actually continuing here. You are an idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

this character is over a year old - i have 8 characters in total, have beaten the game at every level, includeing PvP - i would not still have the character if she got smoked at the start of every fight and wasn't effective. - you can't even see past "13 daggers gives me 3 more dmg then 12 does, so you must suck", so sry i don't accept that anyone that narrowminded understands how to tie their own shoe, let alone the game's mechanics better then i do.

If you understood game mechanics, you wouldn't be running a dagger elementalist.

Lothlorian Sassun · Jun 14, 2007, 06:00 AM // 06:00

This thread seems to have become a pissing match. The OP wanted to know why Shiro's Weapons that you trade for an Amulet of the Mists in the Divine Path are Q (Or R as this thread has become an English Class too) 13 and not Q/R/Req 9 like all the other greens in the game. Everyone should be smart enough to know that the Higher your attributes are in a skill the higher you damage will be. Lets say you bring 16 Dagger Mastery and you have a Q/R/Req9 7-17 Pair of Daggers. Are you going to do more Damage to your Foe if your Daggers were Q/R/Req 13 with the same 16 Attributes? As far as am aware of the answer is no. A Q/R/Req 9 set of daggers will do the same amount of damage as a Q/R/Req 13 at 16 Dagger Mastery. Thus a Q/R/Req 9 set of Max daggers would be more sought after due to the fact that it is more flexible with more build setups. Lets say you wanted to put more attributes in Critical Strikes and wanted to bring Dagger Mastery down to 12 and bring CS up with a certain build. Shiro Weapons should be Q/R/Req 9 to ad flexibility to the weapon. That is why Lower Q/R/Req is more valuable than Higher simply because lower Q/R/Req at Max Damage is more Flexible and the weapon can be used in more situations.

MoldyRiceFrenzy · Jun 14, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08

it is 100% bs that shiro daggers are r13, it is completely irrational and pointless to do that. meh, but w/e im content with using my r9 slashing vamp weps > shiros neways.

Lonesamurai · Jun 14, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Almond

Lothlorian,MoldyRice,,I'm glad you two read this article.. finally a couple people who arent retarded.

Oh my god... your flaming people that actually know how to play ASWELL as know how the game mechanics work now?

From your post count I can tell your new here, so please, either stump up who you actually are (as i'd put money on you being banned before) or just shut up...

there are actually PvP'ers in this thread defending one little bit of roleplay that ANet put into the game... not to mention the HUGE benefit that 13 Dagger mastery gives over 9 Dagger mastery to your skills... and yes, i would run a vamp weapon if it was Shiro's Blades (or sword for that matter) as my damage output from the dagger combo would be much higher from 13 than from the 9 of a normal set of daggers (or Swordsmanship if your using the Shiro Blade on a Warrior of course...

now I try to be helpful here, i try so desperatly hard not to flame people, because i know that Swampgirl and inde would boot my butt out the door for a week for doing it, but you and some of the others in this thread are idiots

Div · Jun 14, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Whine more please, and maybe one day you'll be on par with the PvP group complaining about skill balance ^^

Andrew Almond · Jun 14, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

LoneSamurai... i wasnt flaming Lothlorian and moldyrice... i was just stating they knew what they were talking about. and of course 13 dagger mastery will give you an advantage over 9 dagger mastery.. but 13 dagger mastery with a 13 req weapon will not give you an advantage over 13 dagger mastery with a 9 req weapon.

Kakumei · Jun 14, 2007, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Almond

no one said i couldnt.

Hey what's this oh it's the forum rules

Quote:

10. Do Not Double Post

In these forums, a double post consists of any two consecutive posts from the same user. It does not matter whether or not the contents differ -- if no one else's words or opinions come between two posts from the same person, it's a double post. Since the forums are growing extremely fast, and the moderators have limited time, those who ignore the edit button and repeatedly double/triple/quadruple post can have their second, third, fourth, etc, posts deleted without notice, and without having their contents pasted onto the first post as per usual.

Use the EDIT Button
As the EDIT button will never disappear, you can always go back to edit your last post and add new thoughts. The practice of "bumping" is highly discouraged in these forums. If people wish to respond to your thread, they will add their opinions without the need of repeated spammed "bumps." Repeated "bumping" of a thread will most likely lead to the thread's deletion, instead.

Why is this thread still open? The question is why do the weapons have such a high requirement, and the answer is flavor. This was totally covered like five pages ago.

Selket · Jun 14, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

OMG HOW MY ASSASSIN WITH 14-16 DAGGER MASTERY EVER USE VAMP Dgrz, HOW DIS HAPPEN OMFG

bam23 · Jun 14, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Hey what's this oh it's the forum rules

I lol'ed. I'm still on the lookout for more later.

Lothlorian Sassun · Jun 14, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Double Posting is very Taboo in most Forums including this one. I agree that it is very silly for Shiro Weapons to be Req 13. I guess it is just a RPG thing to make sure the weapons are only used by a Primary. The OP should understand that Double Posting only makes him look childish and invites others to further flame his topic and make him look bad in the community. It also does little to get his point across.

HawkofStorms · Jun 14, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Shiro's weapons USED to have a requirement of 15, so stop complaining. Weapon requirement DOES not affect damage so long as you meet it. You should meet that requirement all the time as a sin or warrior anyway (unless you want to use your shiro's blade on your leet R/W server artery tasher)

Andrew Almond · Jun 14, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Lothorian may have a point and maybe I have had to many posts. I will delete my old posts that have nothing to do with the argument over this topic. I apologize to everyone as well.. I was just trying to defend my argument that secondary professions should be able to use Shiro weapons. The last thing I want is to look childish.. people might get the idea that I play video games.. anyway.. the facts are that if the req was dropped all it would effect is giving primary warriors/sins who use the weapons the flexiblity of allocating attribute points towards another attribute.. it wouldnt effect game play in any other way except that secondary warrior/sin professions would be able to use them and be happy with the weapons.

Kale Ironfist · Jun 15, 2007, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Stop stating opinions as facts. No decent Warrior or Assassin using their sword/daggers has less than 13 in their weapon mastery, generally 14 (12+headgear+minor rune). This changes things, how? They need the high weapon mastery to deal base and skill damage, else they're just subpar.